Know Your Role yahoo group

[Reno]

games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WWERPGFan/

This is the Yahoo group created for the game. It hasn't had much activity, and in fact none at all since last September or so I think, but there are still a few helpful things posted there.

Tony Lee, the primary author of the book, is a member of the group and has been willing to answer rules questions in the past. I also believe I uploaded my character sheet there once before.

[Reno]

I'm reading some more of the messages posted on the Yahoo group, and thought I should copy rules questions to here when I find them. Here's the first one:

Hi guys,

Question from one of my players regarding the
Overpowering Strike feat (p55).

The flavour text refers to 'those not expecting you to
knock them prone' and the rules text states that the
feat kicks in when you *roll* to lift/knockdown and
succeed. Does this mean that on an automatic
lift/knockdown (due to the key stat beating the lift
DC) the feat does not take effect?

You are correct. You must have actually rolled for lift/knockdown to get the
benefits of the Overpowering Strike feat. No roll, no feat effect.

[Reno]

Next one:

This is a point of contention in the group right now...

When someone is stunned, he rolls 1d20-5 for his action count. The
rules seem to imply that this is the only modifier. I can see excluding
the positive mods for things like BAB, feats and such. But do you
exclude the minuses for Endurance loss as well? I say no; the group's
resident rules lawyer says yes. I could just put my foot down like Mr.
McMahon, but I would like to know the designers intent here.


No, you don't exclude fatigue penalty, meaning it's 1d20 - 5 - fatigue
penalty for Endurance loss when stunned. Fatigue penalty is a "universal"
effect and imposed on all rolls except damage. However, I personally have
almost always forgotten to apply that to stunned characters' rolls when
reffing in the heat of battle

[Reno]

Another series of questions:

>1: The section on submission finishers refers to
>spending Heat to keep the 'automatic two-count'
>benefit. However, pinfalls obviously aren't relevant
>to submission holds.

You have to spend Heat every round to retain hold of a submission finisher,
otherwise it ceases to be a finisher and thus does normal damage, not double
dice. In other words, you're paying Heat for the double-dice damage finisher
benefit per turn you keep the finisher locked in.

>Am I right in remembering that with submissions the
>equivalent benefit is that your opponent has to roll
>to resist tapping out even if the damage doesn't
>exceed their Con score?

No, you still have to exceed their CON for them to roll for tap out.
However, you do still get the auto two-count benefit if you break the hold
and follow immediately with a pin.

>2: Martial arts weapons proficiency seems an odd one
>to me. It's very specific compared to the other
>proficiencies, and a kendo stick doesn't seem to be
>any more effective than, say, a steel chair. Anyway,
>I wanted to check how exactly it works.
>
>A shot with a kendo stick is a rough move, right? If
>you have rough manoeuvre proficiency and martial arts
>weapon proficiency, you obviously take no
>nonproficiency penalty. No problem.

Actually, we wanted to set a difference between normal and martial
weapons/foreign objects. So if you're using a martial weapon such as kendo
stick or nunchuk without Martial Weapons Proficiency, you take the -4
nonproficiency even if you have Rough Proficiency, since Rough Proficiency
covers NORMAL foreign objects but not "martial" weapons. (Think of this as
the "Steve Blackman Rule.")

>If you have neither, do you take a -4 penalty as
>normal, or do you take a -8, for the two proficiencies
>you don't have?

Martial Weapons Proficiency in game term are essentially the "seventh
maneuvers group," albeit coming into play only when martial weapons are
involved, so you take only -4 penalty as normal without it.

Having MWP but no RMP (Rough Maneuvers Proficiency) won't help you with
normal foreign objects any more than having the reverse with martial
weapons. (In short, take the -4 nonprof penalty.)

>3. You have to do ten damage to an opponent to earn a
>heat point. Is this damage rolled, or damage actually
>dealt (that is, after things like damage reduction and
>saving for half damage)?

Actual damage dealt. Which makes damage reduction and save for half
abilities even more meaningful.

Honestly I dislike the Martial Arts Weapon Proficiency. It seems silly to me that kendo sticks, nunchaku, or the other small handful of martial arts weapons that could feasibly used in a wrestling match should require a separate proficiency, while things like tables, chairs, sledgehammers, barbed wire 2x4's, garbage cans, fire extinguishers, and ladders all fall under the purview of Rough Maneuvers Proficiency.

The only function a separate Martial Arts Weapon Proficiency feat seems to serve is to punish characters with a martial artist gimmick by requiring them to take a redundant feat to use weapons which are mechanically identical to normal weapons as covered under Rough Maneuvers.

What does everybody else think of this issue?

[Reno]

Here is some more talk from the Yahoo group about the Martial Arts proficiency feat, that might be worth considering before weighing in on whether it deserves to exist as a separate feat:

>I don't really see one, though. There doesn't seem to
>be any mechanical reason to use a kendo stick over a
>steel chair, and if there's not then there's no point
>in taking MA proficiency over rough proficiency.

Admittedly, MA Prof. is for flavor and only useful in a Kendo Stick match, a
Martial Weapons in a Cage match (ala Steve Blackman vs. Ken Shamrock) or
some such where Rough just doesn't seem to cover the less conventional
"foreign objects" (e.g., tonfu, nunchuck, etc.). The idea is if you have it,
you are at a definite advantage when challenging someone to such exotic
matches, much like like challenging someone without Rough Prof. to a street
fight.

>So which ability do they use? What do they count as
>for manoeuvre limit purposes?

I'd have to say Dex, since most martial weapons require more agility than
anything else to wield properly, but without weight damage tacked on to
perform, obviously. As such, I'd also count it as Aerial for maneuver limit.

>Again, I appreciate the clarification, but I think
>I'll just drop the MA proficiency and make a kendo
>stick shot a rough move.

I see your point... MA is something to set wrestlers of martial arts
origins/gimmicks apart, that's all. Another good point about KYR is that the
rules are extremely customizable. You can easily house-rule one thing
without having to change a lot of other things.

While I see the designers' point that having a separate feat serves to distinguish martial arts weapons and give them a more exotic flavor, as well as putting martial arts specialists at an advantage in a match where such a weapon is featured to the exclusion of other weapons (I have personally never heard of such a match), I still feel this is an unnecessary feat and should fall under the category of Rough moves just like a chair shot or other weapon use.

[Reno]

A couple more rules questions that were asked, and their responses:

Student of the Game feat

I htink that's what it's called...don't have the book
on me. It's the one that lets you lower the damage
dice for a particular move type for a match.

Am I right in thinking that this affects everyone,
including yourself?


It does NOT include yourself.

Know Your Enemy feat

This states that you make a Reputation roll, adding
your opponent's Reputation and your Knowledge Roster
as a bonus. Does this mean you add both your and your
opponent's Rep, or just your opponent's?


Just your opponent's. Better wording would be "make a Reputation roll using
your opponent's Reputation bonus..."

[Reno]

Another Q&A session regarding the Textbook talent for Technical superstars and the Cheap Shot Artist feat:

Textbook and Cheap shot Artist

>You don't perform any maneuver other than a pin
automatically with Textbook; it's for reversing a pin
and starting your own pin only. Using the talent,
when you beat your opponent on a pin count by 10 or
more, you kick out and have the options of (1) spend 1
Endurance to begin a normal 3-count pin attmpet
against him as you reverse the pin, (2) if the
original pin followed a finisher against you, spend 1
Endurance AND 1 Heat to begin an auto-2 count pin
against him as if you had hit a finisher (but only
with the pin benefit; there's no damage).<

Um...that's not what the book says:

"Any time you beat the opposing check to pin you or to
maintain a submission by 10+, you can reverse the pin
and begin a pin attempt on the opponent or reverse the
hold immediately. In either case no manoeuvre check
is necessary since it's considered automatic. If the
hold reversed is your finisher, you must still spend 1
Heat to gain the benefits of a finishing manoeuvre (ie
double damage dice and automatic two-count)."

So yes, the text says you can reverse a submission
with it. I'd say it has to be the same submission;
see p72 for the submission reversal rules (which
normally only kick in on a critical success) and apply
those.

Quick question on the Cheap Shot Artist feat; does it
add +2 to manoeuvre checks to perform illegal moves,
or just to the rolls to avoid DQ?

Oops, you're right; I missed the submission part. And yes, it must be the
same submission hold.

>So yes, the text says you can reverse a submission
>with it. I'd say it has to be the same submission;
>see p72 for the submission reversal rules (which
>normally only kick in on a critical success) and apply
>those.

>Quick question on the Cheap Shot Artist feat; does it
>add +2 to manoeuvre checks to perform illegal moves,
>or just to the rolls to avoid DQ?

Both to maneuver checks and rolls to avoid DQ.