I'm Upgrading to 4th Edition

[exiled]

After giving it a lot of thought I am upgrading to 4th edition. Not so much becausee I like the changes but more because at least this way there's no confusion. Now I complain about a lot and this can be taken as complainng for all I care but what I am trying to do is just present my reasoning in a calm logical fashion.

The differences between 3rd edition and 3.5 are not major but they are enough to get under my skin. Not only was 3.5 just a way to milk money from consumers it created enough differences to throw a monkey wrench into things. Skills, classes, feats, spells, and magic items now work differently. Its not fair because I am strictly 3rd edition which means some of my character concepts wont work in a 3.5 game and its not fair to players in my games wth 3.5 books because some of their characters won't work. Like take my fighter I had with the 2 nagaikas. I would actually have to redo his sheet to upgrade from 3.0 to 3.5 and even after the changes he would not be as effective. But this isn't just about me what about the player who wants to play the 3.5 ranged ranger those rules do not exist in 3.0 Or what about the other changes I am unaware of?

This is why I want to upgrade to 4th. This way everyone is on the same page until Wizards screws up and in a couple of years pumps out 4.5 or 5th edition. Plus from what I hear combats a lot smoother and its harder to powergame. Everyone has a useful role which pleases me. I got the core books on my omputer if anyone would like a copy and I intend to buy them as well. This way if anyone is even just curious to take a look at them they can.

[Kain]

After my game if you want to run a game in 4th edition I'll play in it. The best way to learn is to play it. I'll still use 3.5 for awhile, but I won't refuse to play in a game just because its 4th edition.

[exiled]

Just ordered the books. I don't like some of the changes but what system is perfect?

[exiled]

I already love what I'm seeing simply because there's no Barbarians. Although I wish they dumped the Halflings in favor of the Gnomes.

[Reno]

There will be a Player's Handbook 2, DMG 2, and Monster Manual 2 next year. PHB 2 will include many of the races and classes that weren't included in the first one, so I hear. Also, there are supposed to be a bunch more playable races in the Monster Manual, including gnomes.

For the record, I have no plans to play 4th edition, even if it DOES prove to be a better system. I have too much invested in 3rd edition, both time and money.

[Kain]

Well I looked at the Player's Handbook and based on only that I wanted to give a quick review of what I'm seeing with 4th edition.

As a player I can see 4th edition being very fun. Every class has their own spells, or prayers, or exploits to use that make each class unique. There are several paths to take with each class and more are opened as you get to level 11 and more still at level 21. No more is a fighter forced to swing a sword boringly until he is able to prestige class into using more unique abilities.

However...

This very aspect that makes it more enjoyable for players I can see making a DMs life a nightmare and quite complicated. Now if a DM wants to make NPCs for the group to fight, they have to worry about the NPCs weapons, skills, feats, magic items, and gear like before, but also their spells, prayers, or exploits now regardless of the NPCs level. They also have to remember all those abilities or find themselves flipping through the book constanly looking for several things for several enemy NPCs. I know if you get the character sheets Wizards sells, you get cards for the encounter powers, at will powers, and daily powers, but that is just one more thing to photo copy and keep for EVERY NPC you have the group fight.

One reason I might have had the group fight a fighter over a wizard was that fighters were easier and faster to design in 3rd/3.5 edition; not so anymore in 4th.

Healing surges are a nice touch, but on the flip of that, I can see battles dragging out now because too much healing is going on.

Action points give you an extra action and you can get more by long resting or by going through two encounters without long resting but thats just more too remember in conjuntion with the feats, skills, powers of each class, etc.

Splitting up the classes and other core elements into several Player's Handbooks, DMGs, MMs, etc is just a crude attempt to make more money in my opinion. Wizards did this in 3rd edition, but the core elements were in one book; the base classes weren't divided into several books.

As far as ease of learning goes I really don't see how this edition is easier to teach/learn than 3rd/3.5 was. There is so much more to remember and handle that it can be quite daunting. I tried teaching my girlfriend 4th and it failed horribly. I then tried 3.5 and it was much smoother. She felt the character sheet flowed much smoother and made more sense; I have to agree after analyzing both. Attacking in 4th edition just seems to be made more confusing with the Str vs. AC, Dex vs. AC, and boxes everywhere on the sheet. 3rd edition just seemed better explained and smoother to follow, I think.

Plus, I found myself having to flip through the entire book to get a full explanation on how action points work, how attack bonuses work, etc.

I understand a lot of people were angered by the release of 3.5, me included, but I'd rather learn the differences in 3.5 than try to adapt to 4th. Plus I've spent hundreds of dollars on 3rd/3.5 edition books, and that's hard to leave behind.

So...after all that talking, I guess I'm going to stay in 3rd edition afterall, at least for now.

[exiled]

Can't say that I blame you its just I'm really picky between 3 and 3.5. I'm not unwilling to play 3.5 its just I'm unwilling to convert my 3rd edition players handbook to 3.5 or anything else I already own in 3rd edition.

[Kain]

Jul 14, 2008 13:58:33 GMT -5 exiled said:

its just I'm unwilling to convert my 3rd edition players handbook to 3.5 or anything else I already own in 3rd edition.

Can't blame you on that one either.

[Kain]

Well after looking through all the core books in detail I have to say I've had a change of heart. Players have a lot more to manage and that can be quite daunting at first, but the book does a decent enough job of stepping you through it all, and with a little explaining on the DMs part, it can be a quite enjoyable experience. DMing actually is much easier in 4th. Creating monsters, NPCs, leveling monsters all is made easier and faster. You can still do things the original way and stat an NPC just like a player's character, but its not necessary at all unless the individual will be a campaign long villain or frequently appearing NPC. Healing isn't as bad or overpowered as it may seem at the surface either. Things have a lot more HP now, and do a lot more damage. So killing the group isn't necessarily harder, and killing monsters isn't necessarily easier either.

The book does a good job of creating types of characters of each class and they took an idea from WoW and have different paths for each class to follow. Also you get more benefits as you level up, and your path can change once you reach levels 10 and again at 21 when you are considered an "epic character."

I found myself making note sheets on things until I get it all set in my head. Also templates are now in the DMG, magic items in the Player's Handbook, and monsters all tend to fit into one page, but their stats are organized into a nice box easily to follow and look at.

I know a lot of people won't change to 4th, but I wanted to state my new take on the edition, and not give anyone what I think are false or incorrect opinions on it.

[Reno]

Let me know if you decide to sell off some of your 3rd edition and 3.5 stuff then.

[Kain]

Jul 28, 2008 14:10:30 GMT -5 Reno said:

Let me know if you decide to sell off some of your 3rd edition and 3.5 stuff then.

Well I don't plan on abandoning 3.5 right now. They'll be games in 4th and 3.5 still I'm sure. So I'll play in both. Plus i doubt I'll ever sell my 3rd/3.5 stuff even if I do switch entirely to 4th one day.